#2502: How ICE Got Created and Why It's So Controversial

From immigration politics to ICE raids, Jan 6 prosecutions, and the legal line on private militias in the US.

0:000:00
Episode Details
Episode ID
MWP-2660
Published
Duration
25:10
Audio
Direct link
Pipeline
V5
TTS Engine
chatterbox-regular
Script Writing Agent
deepseek-v4-pro

AI-Generated Content: This podcast is created using AI personas. Please verify any important information independently.

Immigration: From Bipartisan Consensus to Culture War

For decades, immigration was a relatively boring, bipartisan issue in American politics. Republican presidents Reagan and Bush both signed major immigration reforms — Reagan granting amnesty to three million undocumented immigrants in 1986, Bush expanding legal immigration in 1990 and proposing a path to legal status. Then two things changed everything.

First, demographics. The foreign-born share of the US population nearly doubled from 9% in 1990 to 15% in 2020. By 2020, there were 62 million Hispanic or Latino residents, accounting for over half of all US population growth in that decade. The country was changing visibly and faster than many felt comfortable with.

Second, the Tea Party. The 2010 midterms introduced a populist, anti-immigration strain into Republican politics that directly challenged the party's business-friendly wing. The Chamber of Commerce wanted cheap labor; the Tea Party base wanted a wall. That internal fight reshaped the GOP, and Donald Trump became its beneficiary.

Trump made immigration the central culture-war issue — the wall, the Muslim ban, family separations at the border. Yet public opinion actually shifted leftward in response, with more Americans favoring increased immigration by 2020 than before Trump took office. The backlash created its own backlash.

ICE: A Young Agency with Explosive Growth

ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) was created on March 1, 2003, under the Homeland Security Act signed by George W. Bush. The law merged functions from 22 different agencies and dissolved the old Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). Immigration enforcement moved from the Justice Department to the new Department of Homeland Security — a deliberate framing of immigration as a national security issue, driven by post-9/11 logic.

The growth has been staggering. ICE's budget rose from about $3.5 billion (adjusted for inflation) in 2003 to $9.99 billion by fiscal year 2024 — a 185% increase, more than double the overall growth rate of federal spending. Then came the 2025 "One Big Beautiful Bill Act," allocating $28.7 billion for ICE in fiscal year 2025 alone — nearly triple the prior year — and $75 billion over four years.

ICE has hired over 12,000 new agents since January 2025, expanding to over 22,000. Recruits get $50,000 signing bonuses and student loan forgiveness. The age limit dropped from 21 to 18, and the 37-year hiring cap was waived entirely.

Training Shortened, Deaths in Custody Rise

The ICE Academy was shortened from 22 weeks to 47 days — a number reportedly chosen because Trump is the 47th president. Spanish language training was removed entirely; agents are told to use mobile translation apps. Police officers deputized to work with ICE need only a 40-hour online course.

The consequences have been severe. Thirty-two people died in ICE custody in 2025. About one-third of those arrested have no criminal record. ICE deported roughly 540,000 people since January 2025. There have been killings of US citizens: Renee Nicole Good, a 37-year-old American mother in Minneapolis, was shot and killed by an ICE agent in January 2026; Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old ICU nurse, was shot dead later that month, with multiple videos appearing to show him unarmed and being subdued.

The Trump administration has argued for absolute immunity for ICE officers, which would block lawsuits even when agents knowingly violate clearly established law. A federal judge in Minnesota had to explicitly restate that peaceful protesters cannot be retaliated against. Yet 60% of Americans believe ICE uses excessive force, according to a YouGov poll.

January 6: The Prosecutions and the Pardons

On January 6, 2021, a mob of Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol to disrupt the certification of Biden's electoral victory. About 140 police officers were injured — cracked ribs, smashed spinal disks, brain injuries. Multiple officers died by suicide in the weeks afterward. The DOJ investigation was the largest criminal investigation in US history, involving over 5,000 FBI employees.

Prosecutors convicted more than 1,000 defendants before the pardons, winning convictions in 100% of jury trials — an extraordinary statistic. The defendants were predominantly white (86-90%) and male (86%), average age 41, from 40-47 states. Nearly 60% had significant financial problems; 18% had declared bankruptcy (double the national rate); 20% had faced eviction or foreclosure; 25% had been sued by creditors. About one-third had ties to extremist groups like Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters.

On January 20, 2025 — Trump's first day back in office — blanket pardons and commutations were issued for nearly 1,600 defendants. Trump has since referred to defendants as "hostages," claimed most were "absolutely innocent," and described assaults on police as "very minor incidents" — claims directly contradicted by court records, guilty pleas, and that 100% conviction rate at trial.

Private Militias: What the Law Actually Says

The Second Amendment states: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." But the key phrase is "well regulated." The US does not simply allow private citizens to form armed paramilitary groups. Federal law and most state laws prohibit private paramilitary organizations. The legal line is drawn around whether a group acts under government authority (like the National Guard) or operates independently with military-style training and equipment.

However, enforcement has been inconsistent. Militia groups like the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters participated in January 6, and prosecutions of their leaders under seditious conspiracy statutes showed the legal system can respond — but the question of how to prevent such groups from forming in the first place remains unresolved.

Downloads

Episode Audio

Download the full episode as an MP3 file

Download MP3
Transcript (TXT)

Plain text transcript file

Transcript (PDF)

Formatted PDF with styling

#2502: How ICE Got Created and Why It's So Controversial

Corn
Daniel sent us this one — he's asking for a clear-eyed primer aimed at non-Americans, tracing how immigration went from a relatively boring bipartisan issue to one of the great lightning rods of American politics. He wants the demographic and economic forces that drove the shift, then the story of how ICE emerged — literally created out of the post-nine-eleven Homeland Security reorganization — and why it generates the heat it does. From there, the January sixth Capitol Hill riot, what actually happened and what the prosecutions revealed, and then a question that genuinely puzzles a lot of outsiders: does the US really allow private citizens to form armed militias? What's the actual legal line?
Herman
That is a full plate. And you know, these four things connect in a way that isn't obvious at first glance. They're all about who gets to enforce the law and who gets to defy it. The same questions about state power run through all of them.
Corn
Before we dive in — quick note. DeepSeek V four Pro is writing our script today. So if anything sounds unusually coherent, that's why.
Herman
Pressure's on, DeepSeek. Alright, let's start with the immigration arc because that's the foundation everything else sits on. And the thing most people outside the US don't realize is how recently this became a partisan war. For decades, immigration was the one thing Republicans and Democrats broadly agreed on. Reagan signed the nineteen eighty-six Immigration Reform and Control Act — amnesty for about three million undocumented immigrants, plus employer penalties. Bush expanded legal immigration in nineteen ninety. Bush proposed a temporary worker program with a path to legal status. These were Republican presidents.
Corn
Because something clearly did.
Herman
Two things happened simultaneously. The first is demographic. The foreign-born share of the US population nearly doubled from nine percent in nineteen ninety to fifteen percent in twenty twenty. By twenty twenty there were sixty-two million Hispanic or Latino residents — a twenty-three percent increase from twenty ten — and that group accounted for over half of all US population growth in that decade. The country was changing, visibly, and faster than a lot of people were comfortable with.
Corn
The second thing?
Herman
The Tea Party. Twenty ten is the real inflection point. The Tea Party introduced a populist, anti-immigration strain into Republican politics that directly challenged the party's business-friendly, pro-immigration wing. The Chamber of Commerce types wanted cheap labor and expanded visa programs. The Tea Party base wanted a wall. That internal fight is what reshaped the GOP, and Trump was the beneficiary.
Corn
It's worth noting that the actual numbers don't fully explain the intensity of the politics. The foreign-born share of the population actually declined slightly from its twenty twenty-three historic high of fifteen point eight percent to fourteen point eight percent in twenty twenty-four. So immigration politics have never been more heated even as the demographic trend line flattened out. The gap between perception and reality is part of the story.
Herman
Trump exploited that gap masterfully. He made immigration the central culture-war issue — the wall, the Muslim ban, the zero-tolerance policy that produced family separations at the border. And here's the counterintuitive part: public opinion actually shifted leftward in response. By twenty twenty, more Americans favored increased immigration than before Trump took office. The backlash created its own backlash.
Corn
Which then set the stage for what came after. Biden reversed a lot of Trump policies — halted wall construction, ended the Muslim ban, expanded parole programs. The C H N V program alone covered about one point seven million people. But the media focus on border crossings eroded support for his approach, and by the time Trump returned to office in January twenty twenty-five, he came back with a mass-deportation agenda framed explicitly in invasion language.
Herman
That brings us to ICE. Which is where things get really concrete. Most people don't realize ICE is a young agency. It was created on March first two thousand three under the Homeland Security Act, signed by George W. The law merged functions from twenty-two different agencies and dissolved the old Immigration and Naturalization Service — the INS. Immigration enforcement moved from the Justice Department to the brand-new Department of Homeland Security. The framing was deliberate: immigration was now a national security issue.
Corn
Post-nine-eleven logic.
Herman
The nine-eleven hijackers had exploited immigration loopholes, and the response was to treat immigration enforcement as counterterrorism. That framing has shaped everything ICE has done since.
Corn
Walk me through the growth. Because my sense is the budget numbers tell a story.
Herman
They absolutely do. ICE's budget in fiscal year two thousand three was about three point five billion dollars, adjusted for inflation. By fiscal year twenty twenty-four, it was nine point nine nine billion. That's a one hundred eighty-five percent increase — more than double the overall growth rate of federal spending in the same period. And then came the twenty twenty-five "One Big Beautiful Bill Act," which allocated twenty-eight point seven billion dollars for ICE in fiscal year twenty twenty-five alone. Nearly triple the prior year. Seventy-five billion dollars over four years.
Corn
That's not incremental growth. That's a fundamental reorientation of what the agency is.
Herman
It's not just money. ICE has hired over twelve thousand new agents since January twenty twenty-five, expanding its headcount to over twenty-two thousand. Recruits get fifty thousand dollar signing bonuses and student loan forgiveness. The age limit was dropped from twenty-one to eighteen. The thirty-seven-year hiring cap was waived entirely.
Herman
This is where it gets alarming. The ICE Academy was shortened from twenty-two weeks to forty-seven days. The number forty-seven was reportedly chosen because Trump is the forty-seventh president, which is a strange way to design law enforcement training. Spanish language training was removed entirely — agents are told to use mobile translation apps. And police officers being deputized to work with ICE need only a forty-hour online course.
Corn
You have agents with seven weeks of training, no language skills, armed and conducting raids. What could go wrong?
Herman
Quite a lot, as it turns out. Thirty-two people died in ICE custody in twenty twenty-five. About one-third of those arrested have no criminal record. ICE has deported roughly five hundred forty thousand people since January twenty twenty-five. And then there are the killings of US citizens. On January seventh twenty twenty-six, ICE agent Jonathan Ross shot and killed Renee Nicole Good, a thirty-seven-year-old American mother in Minneapolis. It was ruled a homicide. On January twenty-fourth, Alex Pretti, a thirty-seven-year-old ICU nurse, was shot dead by an ICE agent. Multiple videos appear to show him unarmed and being subdued.
Corn
The accountability question.
Herman
The Trump administration has argued for absolute immunity for ICE officers — not qualified immunity, which is the standard for most law enforcement, but absolute immunity, which would block lawsuits even when agents knowingly violate clearly established law. A federal judge in Minnesota had to explicitly restate that peaceful protesters cannot be retaliated against. And yet sixty percent of Americans believe ICE uses excessive force, according to a YouGov poll.
Corn
The tactics themselves are where the heat comes from. Workplace raids have escalated dramatically — factories, garment districts, farms, restaurants. Masked agents in tactical gear, unmarked vans, smashed car windows. Courthouse arrests, school arrests. In January twenty twenty-six, a five-year-old with a pending asylum case was apprehended as he arrived home from preschool. School officials said he was used as bait.
Herman
US citizens have been detained based on accent or appearance, including Native Americans. The racial profiling dimension is not subtle. So when critics describe ICE as a pin-up poster for state-sanctioned harassment, this is the context. It's not hyperbole. There's a documented pattern.
Corn
Let's pivot to January sixth. Because that connects directly to the question of who gets to use force and against whom. And the contrast between how the state responded to January sixth versus how it conducts immigration enforcement is, I think, part of what Daniel is gesturing toward.
Herman
So January sixth twenty twenty-one. A mob of Trump supporters storms the US Capitol to disrupt the certification of Biden's electoral victory. About one hundred forty police officers were injured — cracked ribs, smashed spinal disks, brain injuries. Multiple officers died by suicide in the weeks afterward. The Department of Justice investigation was the largest criminal investigation in US history, involving over five thousand FBI employees.
Herman
The Justice Department convicted more than one thousand defendants before the pardons. Prosecutors won convictions in one hundred percent of jury trials. That's an extraordinary statistic. When these cases went to a jury, the evidence was so overwhelming that not a single defendant was acquitted.
Corn
Who were they? Because the profile is not what a lot of people assume.
Herman
Predominantly white — eighty-six to ninety percent — and male, eighty-six percent. Average age about forty-one. They came from forty to forty-seven states. Nearly sixty percent had significant financial problems. Eighteen percent had declared bankruptcy, which is double the national rate. Twenty percent had faced eviction or foreclosure. Twenty-five percent had been sued by creditors. About one-third had ties to extremist groups — Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Three Percenters. At least twenty-seven had prior criminal records, including nine with violence-against-women convictions.
Corn
The profile is not hardened terrorists. It's financially struggling, middle-aged, mostly white Americans who got radicalized. That's in some ways more unsettling than if they were all card-carrying extremists. It suggests a broader vulnerability.
Herman
George Washington University's Program on Extremism did a detailed assessment of the participants, and that's exactly their conclusion. These were ordinary people who got pulled into something extraordinary. Which complicates both the "lone wolf terrorist" narrative and the "political prisoner" narrative.
Corn
Then came the pardons. January twentieth twenty twenty-five — Trump's first day back in office — blanket pardons and commutations for nearly sixteen hundred defendants. The federal prosecutions ended. Trump has since referred to defendants as hostages, claimed most were absolutely innocent, and described assaults on police as very minor incidents.
Herman
Claims that are directly contradicted by court records, guilty pleas, and that one hundred percent conviction rate at trial. You don't plead guilty to assaulting a police officer if the assault was very minor and didn't happen. And five years later, the basic facts of January sixth remain politically contested. House Democrats held a public meeting on January sixth twenty twenty-six to rebut what they call a rewriting of history. The facts are not settled in the public mind, even though they were settled in court.
Corn
Which brings us to the militia question. Because some of the January sixth defendants were militia members. And for outsiders, the idea that the United States just lets private citizens form armed paramilitary groups is baffling.
Herman
The answer is: it doesn't. Let's walk through the actual law. The Second Amendment says, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." For most of American history, that was understood as protecting state-based citizen militias as a check on federal standing armies. The idea was that the federal government shouldn't have a monopoly on force.
Herman
Radically, in two thousand eight. District of Columbia versus Heller. The Supreme Court ruled five to four that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess firearms for self-defense, independent of any militia service. But the Court also explicitly affirmed that gun regulation is as much a part of the Second Amendment as the right to keep and bear arms. The individual right is not unlimited.
Corn
What about private militias specifically?
Herman
Federal law — Title ten of the US Code, sections two forty-six through two fifty-five — defines the militia as two things: the organized militia, which is the National Guard, and the unorganized militia, which is all able-bodied males seventeen to forty-five. Private militias have no legal standing under this framework. And the Supreme Court held in Presser versus Illinois, way back in eighteen ninety-six, that the Second Amendment does not protect private paramilitary organizations from being outlawed by states.
Corn
All fifty states ban private militias.
Herman
California's Penal Code section eleven thousand four hundred sixty defines a private paramilitary as two or more persons assembling for the purpose of practicing with weapons and engaging in combat training. Violations can carry up to one year in prison. And yet these laws are rarely enforced.
Corn
That's the gap. The law on paper versus the law in practice.
Herman
It's enormous. It is not technically illegal merely to be a member of an armed extremist militia. Law enforcement struggles to prove that activities like meeting, training, and carrying arms meet the legal threshold for criminal charges. So groups like the Three Percenters, the Oath Keepers, and local patriot militias engage in combat scenario training, field exercises, firearms proficiency drills, roadblock simulations, close-quarter combat — often on public lands — and they're operating in this gray zone where the activity looks illegal but proving it in court is extremely difficult.
Corn
Several of their members were convicted in connection with January sixth. So the connection between militia activity and political violence is not theoretical.
Herman
It's not. And that's the thread that runs through all four of these topics. Immigration enforcement went from a bureaucratic function to a culture-war battleground because the state started using force more visibly and more aggressively. ICE became the face of that force. January sixth was a direct challenge to the state's monopoly on legitimate force. And the militia question is about who gets to organize private force outside the state's control. It's all the same question from different angles.
Corn
One thing I want to pull on — you mentioned the forty-seven-day training academy. That number was reportedly chosen because Trump is the forty-seventh president. Is that confirmed or is that a rumor that got legs?
Herman
It's been reported by Brookings and multiple other outlets, and the administration hasn't denied it. The symbolism is the point. Shortening training from twenty-two weeks to forty-seven days is not an operational decision — it's a political statement. And when you combine that with eliminating Spanish language training and telling agents to use phone translation apps, you're making a deliberate choice about what kind of agency ICE is going to be.
Corn
The ICE expansion also raises a question about institutional inertia. Once you build an agency with a twenty-eight billion dollar budget and twenty-two thousand agents, it doesn't shrink back down easily. Whoever is in the White House next inherits that infrastructure.
Herman
And that's why the budget trajectory matters. The seventy-five billion dollars over four years isn't just about enforcement — it's about building a permanent deportation infrastructure that will outlast any single administration. The Brennan Center has called it a deportation-industrial complex, and the parallel to the military-industrial complex is intentional. Once the contracts are signed and the detention centers are built and the agent pipeline is filled, reversing course becomes politically and logistically extremely difficult.
Corn
Let's go back to January sixth for a moment. The hundred percent conviction rate at trial is striking. What does that tell us?
Herman
It tells us the evidence was overwhelming. These weren't close cases. When the government has video footage of you inside the Capitol, your own social media posts bragging about it, and sometimes your own selfie videos from inside the building, there's not a lot of room for reasonable doubt. The hundred percent conviction rate isn't a sign of prosecutorial overreach — it's a sign that the cases were strong.
Corn
Yet the pardons happened anyway.
Herman
Yet the pardons happened anyway. Which is why the basic facts are still contested. You have a situation where the legal system reached a definitive conclusion, and then the political system essentially overruled it. That's not supposed to happen in a democracy, or at least it's supposed to be extraordinary. Here it was wholesale.
Corn
The militia piece is what I think will surprise a lot of non-American listeners the most. The idea that all fifty states ban private militias, the Supreme Court has said they're not protected, and yet they operate openly and the laws are almost never enforced. That's a pretty fundamental failure of the rule of law.
Herman
And it's not a failure of the law itself — the laws are on the books and they're clear. It's a failure of enforcement. Law enforcement agencies have to make choices about where to allocate resources, and for decades, prosecuting militia members for training activities that haven't yet resulted in violence was not a priority. After January sixth, that calculus may shift. But the pattern is well established.
Corn
There's also a First Amendment dimension here, right? The line between "a group of friends who like guns and camping" and "a paramilitary organization conducting combat training" can be blurry, and prosecutors have to be careful not to criminalize association.
Herman
That's exactly the legal challenge. The Supreme Court has been very protective of freedom of association. Mere membership in a group, even a group with ugly views, is protected. What's not protected is conspiracy to commit violence, or actual paramilitary training directed toward unlawful ends. Proving that line has been crossed requires evidence that is often hard to get before something bad happens.
Corn
You have a system that is structurally reactive rather than proactive. You can prosecute after the violence happens — after January sixth — but stopping the training and organization before it becomes violence is much harder.
Herman
That's the tension. In a liberal democracy, we don't want pre-crime enforcement. We don't want the state shutting down groups because of what they might do. But that means we accept some level of risk that organized private violence will emerge. The question is whether that risk is being managed responsibly, and I think the evidence from January sixth suggests it wasn't.
Corn
Let's circle back to the immigration arc for a moment, because there's an interesting demographic paradox we touched on. The foreign-born share of the population actually declined slightly, and yet the politics are more intense than ever. What explains that?
Herman
Part of it is media. The images people see — caravans at the border, overcrowded detention facilities, and now masked ICE agents in tactical gear — those images drive perception more than aggregate statistics do. If the foreign-born share drops from fifteen point eight percent to fourteen point eight percent, nobody feels that in their daily life. But if you see constant coverage of border crossings, you feel like something is happening.
Corn
The media incentives cut both ways. Outlets that want to drive engagement know that immigration footage generates strong emotional responses. So the coverage is disproportionate to the statistical reality.
Herman
There's also a geographic dimension. Immigration is not evenly distributed. Some communities experience very rapid demographic change, and those communities become flashpoints. The national numbers don't capture the local experience.
Corn
One more thing on ICE before we move to practical takeaways. The absolute immunity argument — is that likely to hold up in court?
Herman
It's a radical departure from existing law. Qualified immunity already makes it very difficult to sue federal officers — you have to show they violated clearly established law. Absolute immunity would mean you can't sue even if they did. It's the standard that applies to judges and prosecutors, not to law enforcement officers conducting raids. I think the courts will be very skeptical. But the fact that the administration is even arguing for it tells you something about how they view accountability.
Corn
Now: Hilbert's daily fun fact.
Herman
Octopuses have three hearts, and two of them stop beating when they swim.
Corn
For listeners trying to make sense of all this, where should they focus? What actually matters for understanding these issues?
Herman
I'd say three things. First, follow the money. The ICE budget trajectory tells you more about where immigration enforcement is going than any political speech. When an agency's budget nearly triples in a single year, that's a policy choice with concrete consequences. Second, pay attention to training standards. The forty-seven-day academy and the elimination of language training are not details — they're decisions that directly shape how agents behave in the field. And third, understand the gap between law and enforcement. The militia question is the clearest example. The laws exist, but they're not enforced. That gap is where a lot of American political dysfunction lives.
Corn
I'd add: look at the demographics skeptically. The intensity of political conflict doesn't always match the statistical reality. When you hear invasion language, check the actual numbers. The foreign-born share of the population is not skyrocketing. That doesn't mean there aren't real challenges, but it does mean the rhetoric is doing work that the data doesn't support.
Herman
On January sixth, the thing to hold onto is that the legal system worked — it investigated, it prosecuted, it convicted — and then the political system intervened. That sequence matters. The rule of law produced a result, and then democracy produced a different result. How you feel about that probably depends on your politics, but understanding that both things happened is essential.
Corn
The militia question is the one that I think will stick with a lot of listeners, because it's so counterintuitive. The US has clear laws banning private paramilitaries. The Supreme Court has said the Second Amendment doesn't protect them. And yet they exist, they train openly, and the laws sit on the shelf. That's not a legal problem. It's an enforcement problem. And enforcement problems are political problems.
Herman
Which brings us back to where we started. All four of these topics are about the same thing: who gets to use force, when, and against whom. Immigration enforcement, the Capitol riot, private militias — they're all debates about the boundaries of state power and the legitimacy of private violence. That's why they generate so much heat. They're not policy disagreements. They're arguments about the nature of the state itself.
Corn
One forward-looking thought: the ICE expansion is building infrastructure that will shape immigration enforcement for decades. The detention centers, the agent pipeline, the legal precedents — all of that outlasts any administration. So the question for the next decade isn't really about Trump or Biden or whoever comes next. It's about whether the US wants a large, permanent deportation apparatus, and what kind of accountability comes with it.
Herman
Thanks to our producer Hilbert Flumingtop for keeping this show running. This has been My Weird Prompts. You can find every episode at myweirdprompts.
Corn
If you got something out of this one, leave us a review wherever you listen. It helps more than you'd think.

This episode was generated with AI assistance. Hosts Herman and Corn are AI personalities.