Episode #372

Proving Reality: Fighting the Liars Dividend with C2PA

In an era of deepfakes, how do we prove what’s real? Explore the tech behind digital provenance and the battle for authenticity.

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The Erosion of Evidence: Navigating the Liars Dividend

In a recent discussion, podcast hosts Herman Poppleberry and Corn tackled one of the most pressing existential threats of the digital age: the evaporation of evidence. The conversation was sparked by a modern-day horror story—a tenant trying to prove a moldy ceiling to a landlord, only to have the photographic evidence dismissed as an AI-generated fake. This phenomenon is what researchers call the "liars dividend." As deepfakes and generative AI become ubiquitous, the default human setting is shifting from "seeing is believing" to "seeing is suspicious." When everything can be faked, the guilty can simply claim that the truth is a simulation, creating a vacuum where accountability disappears.

Herman and Corn explored the emerging technologies designed to fill this vacuum, specifically focusing on the Content Authenticity Initiative (CAI) and the C2PA (Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity) standards. These frameworks aim to provide a "nutrition label" for the internet—a permanent, tamper-evident record of where a piece of content originated and how it was altered.

Beyond Metadata: The Mechanics of Software Verification

The discussion began with a look at software-level verification tools like ProofMode. Herman explained that while traditional photo data (EXIF) is easily manipulated with basic tools, modern verification goes much deeper. Software-level tools capture a "fingerprint of the physical moment." This includes a burst of sensor data, environmental metadata, cell tower connections, and even barometric pressure.

The core of this system is the cryptographic hash. A hash is a unique digital signature; if even a single pixel in an image is changed, the hash no longer matches. This creates a digital chain of custody. Herman highlighted how this aligns with the U.S. Federal Rules of Evidence (specifically Rule 902), which allows for "self-authenticating" digital evidence. If a file has a certified digital signature proving it hasn’t been altered since the moment of capture, it can potentially be admitted in court without a witness needing to vouch for its authenticity.

However, software has a "glass ceiling." As Herman noted, if the underlying operating system of a phone is compromised, a sophisticated actor could feed "verified" lies into the app. This vulnerability is why the industry is moving toward a more robust solution: the hardware root of trust.

The Gold Standard: Hardware-Level Provenance

For high-stakes environments like war zones or crime scenes, software alone may not be enough. Herman and Corn discussed the shift toward hardware-level verification, pioneered by manufacturers like Leica and Sony. In these professional cameras, a dedicated security chip signs the image data the moment light hits the sensor—before it ever reaches a memory card or editing software.

This "hardware root of trust" makes fraud exponentially more difficult. To fake a hardware-signed image, an attacker would have to physically hack the silicon or build an elaborate optical rig to project AI images into a physical lens. While not impossible, it raises the barrier for deception from "clicking a button" to "advanced laboratory engineering."

The hosts noted that this technology is already trickling down to the smartphones in our pockets. With companies like Apple and Qualcomm integrating camera pipelines into "secure enclaves"—the same chips that handle FaceID and credit card data—the day is coming when every photo taken by a citizen could carry a C2PA seal of approval by default.

The Privacy-Security Paradox

While the ability to prove the truth is a clear win for justice, it comes with a significant trade-off: privacy. Corn raised the concern that cryptographically linking every photo to a specific device and location creates a "perfect tracking tool." If a whistleblower takes a photo of government corruption, the very metadata that proves the photo is real could also be the breadcrumbs that lead authorities back to them.

The CAI attempts to solve this through "redactable" metadata or zero-knowledge proofs, allowing a user to prove a photo was taken in a specific city on a specific day without revealing their exact GPS coordinates or identity. Yet, as the hosts observed, any system built to verify the truth can also be repurposed for surveillance.

The Technology Gap and the Future of Truth

Perhaps the most provocative part of the discussion centered on the "technology gap." If hardware-verified content becomes the only evidence trusted by juries and platforms, what happens to those who can’t afford the latest devices?

Corn and Herman warned of a "two-tiered system of truth." In this scenario, the official stories of corporations and governments are backed by expensive, verified hardware, while the grassroots stories of activists and bystanders are dismissed as "unverified noise" simply because they were captured on older, non-compliant equipment. This mirrors the transition to high-definition video, where lower-quality footage was often unfairly perceived as less authentic, despite its raw, real-world origins.

Conclusion: Democratizing Authenticity

The episode concluded with a look at the role of major platforms. While Adobe is leading the charge by integrating "Content Credentials" into Photoshop—allowing users to see exactly which AI tools were used to edit an image—the success of these standards depends on universal adoption. If social media platforms strip away this metadata during upload, the chain of trust is broken.

Ultimately, Herman and Corn argued that tools like ProofMode and C2PA are not just technical specs; they are essential infrastructure for a society that still values reality. As we move deeper into an era of digital deception, the ability to prove that "this happened" may become our most valuable currency. The challenge lies in ensuring that this power to prove the truth remains accessible to everyone, not just those with the most expensive "verified" hardware.

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Episode #372: Proving Reality: Fighting the Liars Dividend with C2PA

Corn
Have you ever had that unsettling feeling that the ground is shifting under your feet? Not literally, though living here in Jerusalem, we do get the occasional tremor. I am talking about the conceptual ground. The feeling that the very idea of evidence is evaporating. I was thinking about this all morning after listening to the audio our housemate Daniel sent over. He had this nightmare scenario with a leaky roof and a landlord who tried to claim a photo of mold was A-I generated. It sounds like a plot from a sci-fi movie, but it is actually just Tuesday in twenty twenty-six.
Herman
Herman Poppleberry here, and Corn, you are hitting on the exact nerve that has been twitching in the tech community for the last couple of years. Daniel is really onto something with this prompt. It is what researchers call the liars dividend. It is the idea that as soon as deepfakes and generative A-I become common, anyone caught doing something wrong can simply point to the evidence and say, that is not real, it is just a computer simulation. It creates a vacuum of truth where the default assumption shifts from seeing is believing to seeing is suspicious.
Corn
It is a terrifying shift. If you cannot prove a photo of a leaky roof is real, how do you prove anything? Daniel mentioned the Content Authenticity Initiative, or C-A-I, and this standard called C-two-P-A. I have seen that little C-R icon popping up on more images lately. It is starting to feel like the nutrition label for the internet. But I want to really dig into the mechanics today. Is this actually going to save our sense of reality, or is it just another layer of digital cat and mouse?
Herman
Well, the C-A-I is a massive consortium. You have got Adobe, Microsoft, Truepic, and even some of the big camera manufacturers like Sony and Leica. The goal is to create a permanent, tamper-evident record of where a piece of content came from and how it was changed. It is called provenance. Think of it like a digital chain of custody that is baked into the file itself.
Corn
Okay, so let us start with what Daniel was using. He mentioned ProofMode. That is a software-level tool. If I am using an app like that on my phone to take a photo of a leaky roof, what is actually happening under the hood? How is that different from just a regular J-P-E-G with a timestamp?
Herman
That is a great place to start. A regular photo has what we call E-X-I-F data. That tells you the shutter speed, the date, and maybe the G-P-S coordinates. But the problem is that E-X-I-F data is incredibly easy to fake. I could open a photo in a basic hex editor and change the date to nineteen ninety-nine if I wanted to. Software-level verification like ProofMode goes much deeper. When you take a photo in an app like that, it captures a massive burst of sensor data and environmental metadata. It looks at the cell towers you are connected to, the Wi-Fi networks in range, the barometric pressure, and even the light sensor readings.
Corn
So it is creating a fingerprint of the physical moment, not just the image.
Herman
Exactly. And then it takes all that data and creates a cryptographic hash. A hash is basically a digital signature that is unique to that specific set of data. If even one pixel in that photo is changed, or if one digit of the G-P-S coordinate is altered, the hash will no longer match. The app then signs that hash with a private key that is unique to your device. This is where we get into the Federal Rules of Evidence that Daniel was curious about. In the United States, for example, Federal Rule of Evidence nine hundred two covers self-authenticating evidence.
Corn
Right, I remember reading about that. Usually, you need a witness to stand up in court and say, I took this photo and it is accurate. But nine hundred two allows certain records to be admitted without a witness if they have a certified digital signature.
Herman
Precisely. Rules nine hundred two thirteen and fourteen were specifically added to handle things like forensic copies of hard drives and electronic data. Software like ProofMode is designed to meet that standard. It creates a bundle of evidence that a lawyer can take to a judge and say, this file has not been altered since the moment it was captured, and here is the mathematical proof.
Corn
But here is my concern, Herman. If it is just software, is it not still vulnerable? If I am a sophisticated actor, can I not just spoof the software? Can I not feed the ProofMode app a fake video stream or fake G-P-S coordinates from a rooted phone?
Herman
You have hit the nail on the head. That is the fundamental limitation of software-only verification. You are trusting the operating system. If the Android or i-O-S kernel is compromised, or if you are running the app in an emulator, you can feed it whatever lies you want. The software will faithfully sign those lies, and you end up with a perfectly verified, high-integrity fake. This is why many experts see software-level tools as a vital first step, but not the final destination.
Corn
Which leads us to the hardware-level verification. Daniel asked if hardware is the gold standard. We are starting to see this in professional cameras now, right? I know Leica was the first to really jump on this with the M-eleven-P.
Herman
Yes, the Leica M-eleven-P was the pioneer. It has a dedicated security chip inside the camera body. When the light hits the sensor and the image processor creates the raw file, that security chip immediately signs the data. This happens before the data even reaches the memory card or any external software. It is what we call a hardware root of trust. Sony followed suit not long after. They released firmware updates for the Alpha one, the Alpha seven-S mark three, and the Alpha nine mark three to support C-two-P-A.
Corn
So in those cases, the camera itself is saying, I am a physical device, I saw this light at this time, and I am signing it with a key that is physically burned into my silicon. You cannot spoof that by rooting a phone because the key never leaves the secure enclave of the camera.
Herman
Exactly. It creates a much higher barrier for fraud. To fake a hardware-signed image, you would essentially have to physically hack the chip or build a sophisticated optical rig to project an A-I generated image onto the camera sensor in real-time. It is not impossible, but it is orders of magnitude harder than clicking a button in a software suite.
Corn
That makes sense for a professional photographer or a journalist in a war zone. But what about the average person? Most of us are not carrying five-thousand-dollar Leicas. We are using our phones. Is this coming to the hardware in our pockets?
Herman
It is already starting. Qualcomm and Apple have been members of these consortia for a while. Modern smartphones already have secure enclaves and T-E-Es, which are Trusted Execution Environments. These are the same chips that handle your Face I-D and your credit card information for mobile payments. The infrastructure is there. The next step, which we are starting to see in twenty-twenty-six, is integrating the camera pipeline directly into that secure enclave.
Corn
So eventually, every photo I take on my phone could have a C-two-P-A seal of approval by default. But that brings up a huge privacy question, does it not? If every photo is cryptographically linked to my specific device and my location, am I not just creating a perfect tracking tool for myself?
Herman
That is the big tension. The C-A-I has tried to address this by making the metadata optional or redactable. You can prove a photo is real without necessarily revealing exactly where you were or who you are. You can use what is called a zero-knowledge proof or just a partial disclosure. For example, you could prove the photo was taken in Jerusalem on January thirtieth without revealing the exact street address. But you are right to be cautious. Any system built to prove truth can also be used to enforce surveillance.
Corn
It is a delicate balance. I want to go back to the high-stakes environments Daniel mentioned. Law enforcement and body cams. This seems like the most obvious use case. If a police officer is involved in a shooting, the public needs to know that the footage has not been edited or deepfaked by the department. Is this actually happening yet?
Herman
It is in the transition phase. Companies like Axon, which is the big player in the body cam space, have joined the C-two-P-A steering committee. They are working on integrating these standards into their entire ecosystem. Think about the chain of custody. Right now, we rely on a secure upload from the camera to a cloud server like Evidence-dot-com. But with C-two-P-A, the footage is signed the second it is recorded. Even if it sits on a thumb drive in a drawer for a week, you can verify its integrity later.
Corn
That seems like it should be mandatory. If we have the technology to prove a video is untampered, why would we ever accept anything less in a courtroom?
Herman
Well, there is the cost and the legacy hardware problem. Police departments are not known for being quick to upgrade their tech. There are hundreds of thousands of older body cams in service that do not have the hardware to support this. We are likely looking at a decade-long transition. But in twenty-twenty-six, we are seeing the first precincts starting to require C-two-P-A compliance for all new equipment. It is becoming a benchmark for transparency.
Corn
I wonder about the defense side of that, though. If hardware-level signing becomes the gold standard, does that mean any evidence that does not have it is automatically seen as fake? If I am a bystander who records police misconduct on an older phone that does not support C-two-P-A, will a jury just ignore it because it lacks the digital seal of approval?
Herman
That is a brilliant point, Corn, and it is something that civil liberties groups are very worried about. It is called the technology gap. If we create a world where only verified content is trusted, we might inadvertently silence the people who cannot afford the latest verified devices. It could create a two-tiered system of truth. The official story is verified by expensive hardware, while the grassroots story is dismissed as unverified noise.
Corn
We saw something similar with the transition to high-definition video. People started to think that if a video was grainy, it was somehow less authentic, even though graininess is often a sign of a real, low-light situation. Now we are moving from visual aesthetics to cryptographic aesthetics.
Herman
Exactly. And this is why software-level tools like ProofMode are so important. They provide a middle ground. They might not be as bulletproof as a dedicated security chip in a Leica, but they are accessible to anyone with a smartphone. They allow a regular person to add a layer of credibility to their evidence without needing a specialized device. It is about democratizing the ability to prove reality.
Corn
I think we should talk about the role of the platforms here. Adobe has been the big driver behind this, which is interesting because Photoshop is the tool everyone blames for fake images in the first place. It is like the company that made the lock is now making the key.
Herman
It is a smart move by them. They have integrated Content Credentials directly into Photoshop. When you edit an image, the software keeps a log of what you did. If you used an A-I tool to fill in a background or change someone's hair color, that is recorded in the metadata. When you export the file, you can attach those credentials. Then, when someone sees that image on a news site or social media, they can click that little C-R icon and see exactly how the image was altered.
Corn
But that only works if the platforms support it. If I upload a verified photo to a social media site and that site strips out all the metadata to save space, the chain of trust is broken.
Herman
That has been the biggest hurdle. Most social media platforms have historically stripped E-X-I-F data for privacy and storage reasons. But we are starting to see a shift. Some platforms are beginning to recognize C-two-P-A manifests and display that authenticity badge. They realize that in a world of A-I hallucinations, being the platform that can prove what is real is a huge competitive advantage.
Corn
It is basically a new form of the blue checkmark. Instead of verifying the person, we are verifying the pixels. But we saw how the blue checkmark system fell apart when it became a pay-to-play scheme. Is there a risk of that here?
Herman
The difference is that C-two-P-A is an open standard. It is not owned by one company. Anyone can build a tool to verify these manifests. You do not have to pay a monthly fee to a billionaire to have your photos cryptographically signed. You just need a device or an app that follows the protocol. That open-source nature is what gives me hope that it will not just become another corporate gatekeeping tool.
Corn
I want to go back to Daniel's specific situation. Let us say he uses ProofMode to document the mold from the leaky roof. He goes to court against his landlord. The landlord says, that is A-I. Daniel's lawyer pulls up the ProofMode bundle. How does a judge, who might not be tech-savvy, actually interpret that? Do we need a new breed of digital forensic experts to explain these hashes to a jury?
Herman
We already have them, but their jobs are about to get a lot busier. In a case like that, the lawyer would likely use a verification tool. There are websites where you can drop a file, and it will check the C-two-P-A manifest against the public keys of the manufacturer or the software provider. It gives you a green checkmark and a simple explanation. The goal of the C-A-I is to make it so simple that a judge or a juror can understand it without a degree in computer science. It is like a notary's seal. You do not need to understand the chemistry of the ink or the physics of the stamp to know that a notarized document is official.
Corn
That is a good analogy. But a notary's seal can still be forged. It just takes a lot of effort. It feels like we are in this perpetual race where the fakes get better, so the verification has to get stronger, which then challenges the fakers to get even better. Does this race ever end?
Herman
Probably not. It is the nature of security. But what we are doing with C-two-P-A is raising the floor. Right now, the floor is so low that a teenager with a free A-I tool can create a convincing fake. By implementing these standards, we are making it so that creating a convincing, verified fake requires state-level resources. It does not eliminate the problem, but it makes it much harder to do at scale.
Corn
And scaling is the real danger. One deepfake is a problem, but a million deepfakes is a catastrophe for democracy. If we can at least verify the work of professional journalists and official records, we can maintain a baseline of shared reality.
Herman
Exactly. It is about protecting the signal in the noise. One of the most interesting developments I have seen lately is how this is being used in citizen journalism. There is a project called Starling Lab, which is a collaboration between Stanford and U-S-C. They have been using these tools to document potential war crimes. They use a combination of hardware-level signing, decentralized storage on things like Filecoin, and even recording the hashes onto a blockchain.
Corn
That is intense. Using a blockchain to preserve the history of a war zone. It makes sense, though. If you want to create a record that is truly permanent and tamper-proof, you have to move beyond a single server or a single company.
Herman
Right. They call it a framework of trust. You have the capture layer, which is the camera signing the data. You have the storage layer, which is decentralized so no government can delete it. And you have the verification layer, which is the open standard that anyone can check. It is a complete reimagining of how we preserve history in the digital age.
Corn
It makes me think about episode one hundred fifty-one, where we talked about why high-speed internet can still feel slow. It was all about the bottlenecks in the system. In the world of content authenticity, the bottleneck is not the technology, it is the trust. We have the math to prove things are real, but do we have the social structures to believe the math?
Herman
That is the million-dollar question. You can show someone a green checkmark and a cryptographic proof, but if they are determined to believe a lie, no amount of math will change their mind. We are building the technical tools for truth, but the psychological tools are still lagging behind.
Corn
So, to answer Daniel's question, software-level verification is a vital tool for the masses, but hardware-level signing is the necessary backbone for high-stakes truth. We are likely moving toward a world where your phone does this automatically, but we have to be vigilant about the privacy and accessibility implications.
Herman
Well said. It is not a silver bullet, but it is the best shield we have against the coming storm of synthetic content. We are moving from an era of blind trust to an era of verified provenance. It is going to be a bumpy ride, but at least we have a map.
Corn
I think that is a good place to wrap up our core discussion. But before we go, I want to make sure we give some practical advice for people like Daniel who might be facing these accusations right now. If you are in a situation where you need to prove your content is real, what should you do?
Herman
First, if you know you are in a high-stakes situation, like a legal dispute or a sensitive reporting job, start using a verification app immediately. ProofMode is excellent and open-source. There is also an app called Truepic Lens that is very highly regarded in the professional space. These apps create a bundle of metadata that is much harder to dismiss in court than a standard photo.
Corn
And if you are buying new equipment, especially for professional use, check for C-two-P-A support. It is becoming a standard feature in high-end cameras, and it likely won't be long before it is a selling point for smartphones too. Also, keep your original files. Never just keep the version you uploaded to social media. The original file has the most metadata and the highest integrity.
Herman
Great point. And for the listeners who are just browsing the web, start looking for that C-R icon. Adobe has a website called Verify where you can upload any image to see if it has Content Credentials. It is a great way to train your own eye to look for provenance.
Corn
This has been such a fascinating deep dive. Daniel, thanks again for sending this in. It is one of those topics that feels a bit technical until it suddenly becomes very personal, like with your leaky roof. I hope the landlord eventually backed down when he saw you knew your stuff.
Herman
Yeah, nothing scares a difficult landlord like a tenant who understands cryptographic hashes. Before we sign off, I want to remind everyone that we love hearing from you. If you have a weird prompt of your own, or if you have thoughts on the reality crisis we discussed today, head over to myweirdprompts-dot-com and use the contact form.
Corn
And if you have been enjoying the show, we would really appreciate it if you could leave us a review on Spotify or your favorite podcast app. It genuinely helps other curious minds find us in the sea of content. We are on episode three hundred sixty-five now, and it is the support of this community that keeps us going.
Herman
It really does. We have come a long way since those early episodes, and we have got a lot more rabbit holes to explore. Remember, you can find all our past episodes and more information at our website.
Corn
Thanks for joining us in the house today. This has been My Weird Prompts. I am Corn.
Herman
And I am Herman Poppleberry. We will see you in the next one.
Corn
Stay curious, and keep questioning the pixels. Bye for now.
Herman
Bye everyone.

This episode was generated with AI assistance. Hosts Herman and Corn are AI personalities.

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